Stein: Ayton for John Collins or Myles Turner continues to flow into

Undecided for those who’ve heard of this, however Phoenix Suns middle Deandre Ayton is a restricted free agent beginning on July 1. The Suns 24-year previous beginning middle shouldn’t be underneath contract to play any extra video games with the Suns, and can start fielding presents from groups in lower than two weeks. The Suns would have the appropriate to match any presents to maintain him.

His asking value from one other staff is a rookie-level most contract value $ 131 million over the following 4 years, beginning at $ 30.5 million subsequent season and going up 5% per 12 months thereafter. The Suns can provide / match that quantity, or perhaps a little extra (yet one more 12 months, 3% larger raises), however have been reluctant to take action.

The Suns solely public motive – supplied by Basic Supervisor James Jones when the extension deadline handed a 12 months in the past – to carry again on that 5-year max deal is an obscure league rule {that a} staff can carry not more than two 5-year-rookies -max offers at a time, they usually’ve already received Devin Booker on one. So, in accordance with Jones, that fifth 12 months on a max was a non-starter as a result of the Suns wished the liberty to have the ability to add one other participant on the identical type of contract within the subsequent couple of years (there are 13 such gamers within the NBA right now) if the chance arose, to couple with Booker and Ayton.

Listed here are these gamers at the moment on a 5-year max extension from their rookie deal:

  1. Andrew Wiggins, expires 2023 (All-Star)
  2. Joel Embiid, exp. 2023 (All-Star, All-NBA)
  3. Karl-Anthony Cities, exp. 2024 (All-Star, All-NBA)
  4. Devin Booker, exp. 2024 (All-Star, All-NBA)
  5. Ben Simmons, exp. 2025 (All-Star, All-NBA)
  6. Jayson Tatum, exp. 2026 (All-Star, All-NBA)
  7. Bam Adebayo, exp. 2026 (All-Star, All-NBA)
  8. De’Aaron Fox, exp. 2026
  9. Donovan Mitchell, exp. 2026 (All-Star)
  10. Luka Doncic, exp. 2027 (All-Star, All-NBA)
  11. Trae Younger, exp. 2027 (All-Star, All-NBA)
  12. Shae Gilgeous-Alexander, exp. 2027
  13. Michael Porter Jr., exp. 2027

Many of those gamers seem untouchable, however it’s fairly potential that considered one of them might spring unfastened and, in accordance with James, the Suns didn’t need their palms tied.

The quiet half, that’s solely talked about third- and fourth-hand, is that the Suns produce other causes to not give $ 30 million a 12 months to Ayton, which might make him the second-highest paid participant on the Suns and in regards to the thirty fifth -highest paid within the NBA. These different “do not quote me” causes embody Ayton’s inconsistent focus, his positional limitation as a middle and his lack of ‘make one thing out of nothing’ abilities.

So now, we have now a standoff.

Ayton’s camp has reportedly been floating round an curiosity in enjoying for one more staff, supposedly a staff that desires to pay him probably the most they’ll probably pay and desires to characteristic him as one thing greater than only a ‘massive man’.

I say reportedly in a unfastened sense. Nationwide media information breakers have heard this rumor. Ayton’s agent has been ambivalent on the file. Again channels are sure of it, however once more there’s nothing on file. Not a single quote or remark has come instantly from the participant or the Suns on Ayton’s chance of staying or leaving.

Anyway, I digress.

Because it stands, Ayton’s cellphone goes to begin ringing as early as 6:00 PM on June 30. They cannot communicate to Ayton or his agent previous to that date – tampering? what’s tampering? – so everybody’s in hypothesis mode till then.

Within the meantime, it is rumor-mania.

Within the newest version of Marc Stein’s subtsack, we get a giant obtain of continued DeAndre Ayton chatter included.

John Collins to the Suns?

Iʼve been suggested that relocation for Collins this offseason is just about anticipated now.

Collins is one other former his decide who wished a max extension, however by no means received it and went to restricted free company. He stayed with the Hawks, settling final summer season for a 5 years for $ 125 million – about 20% under the max.

However the Hawks had a disappointing season, as did Collins, and now he is proper again on the commerce block.

One thing else to file away: I’ve likewise been apprised that Suns normal supervisor James Jones has rated Collins extremely prior to now. The Hawks, keep in mind, have been routinely talked about as a number one potential sign-and-trade accomplice for Phoenix’s Deandre Ayton.

The machinations of one thing like this are tough to drag off. As you realize, as a result of base 12 months compensation rule, Ayton himself can solely deliver again to the Suns not more than $ 19.2 million in wage if his wage to the receiving staff is $ 30.5 million. Collins alone makes $ 23.5 million subsequent 12 months. Nobody-to-one commerce can occur right here.

Here is extra on the Ayton commerce problems with the bottom 12 months compensation rule:

The Hawks pay a ton of cash for salaries already, so buying Ayton in a sign-and-trade would put them over the tax apron and drive them to dump different salaries simply to execute the commerce in any respect.

To finish a Collins-for-Ayton commerce the Hawks must discover a third staff keen to tackle virtually $ 10 million in different Suns / Hawks gamers for FREE (ie. Take up in cap house or a commerce exception, with solely draft picks or money issues in return). The Hawks solely have 9 gamers underneath contract on July 1, and solely De’Andre Hunter, Onyeka Okongwu and Jalen Johnson make lower than $ 14 million. I don’t assume they wish to commerce any of these guys, particularly for nothing in return.

I am calling BS on an Ayton for Collins swap.

So how about this as an alternative. Since James Jones likes Collins, a 6’10 ”skinny energy ahead, and the Hawks wish to eliminate Collins and save a bit on their cap, how in regards to the Suns work a non-Ayton commerce for Collins? Most any three of Landry Shamet, Cameron Payne, Torrey Craig, Dario Saric, Jae Crowder and Cameron Johnson would mixture properly right into a Collins commerce to save lots of the Hawks a bit of cash and fill out their roster with playoff-proven vets.

Sadly, Cam Johnson is the one man in that listing a Hawks staff could be excited to amass.

Assuming the Suns received Collins by some means, let’s assessment the professionals and cons.

Upside of getting Collins: he can rating and he can rebound. In the appropriate scenario, he is a 20/10 participant, who could make threes and jam exhausting on the decide and ROLL – all the pieces a ravenous Suns fan desires! He is like Amare-lite.

Draw back of getting Collins: protection (as a result of rebounding shouldn’t be protection). He cannot actually play the middle place defensively, and cannot play a lot perimeter protection both. The Suns must do loads of overlaying for him regardless of the place he performs on protection.

Myles Turner to the Suns for Ayton?

Phoenix’s DeAndre Ayton for a package deal headlined by Myles Turner? Indiana extending a big provide sheet to Charlotte restricted free agent Miles Bridges? The Pacers are subsequent in line after the Hawks with regards to groups producing very fascinating transactional situations. Most of all, in fact, Indiana has been anticipated to commerce Malcolm Brogdon basically because the common season ended (with Washington and New York mentioned to have an interest) and Tyrese Haliburtonʼs robust begin as a Pacer.

This one truly works proper out of the gate, so far as the Suns are involved. The Pacers might ship again Turner, whereas the Suns sign-and-trade Ayton to them. The Pacers actually have a bunch of cap house to soak up the bizarre wage variations in buying $ 30 million whereas solely sending out Turner’s $ 18 million.

So, give the rumor mill a thumbs up for at the least imagining a workable commerce.

Upside of getting Turner: he is a poor man’s Rudy Gobert on rim safety. Assuming well being and a aggressive staff round him, Turner is a perennial Defensive Participant of the Yr candidate as a result of he protects the rim / paint in addition to anybody within the league not named Gobert. On the offensive finish, you may think about Chris Paul making him a superb pick-and-roll goal whereas additionally salivating over his compunction to throw up threes from the nook.

Draw back of getting Turner: Who’s going to seize rebounds? Turner is terrible at rebounding, and for those who’re caught with Crowder, Bridges and CamJ as your forwards, effectively the Suns are going to lose each rebound battle by 10+ per recreation. You thought the Pelicans playoff sequence was painful? Think about that for 82 video games a 12 months, then double-bad as soon as the playoffs begin. Additionally, Turner is a low-percentage three level shooter, has by no means been nice shakes at ending within the paint and has perennial well being points – the most recent being a foot harm, and also you by no means ever need your 7-footer having foot points. And at last, he cannot play protection towards a five-out offense just like the Mavs. You would be having to take a seat him within the playoffs towards sure groups.

So, it is potential however I simply hope this commerce doesn’t occur.

How about Malcolm Brogdon to the Suns?

Everyone knows the Suns preferred Brogdon three years in the past after they tried and didn’t get him, and settled on Ricky Rubio as an alternative. Brogdon was acquired by the Pacers in a sign-and-trade from the Bucks, for $ 85 million over 4 years.

Brogdon has been okay in Indiana, however not nice, and now they’re transferring him to make extra room for younger Tyrese Haliburton.

Brogdon makes $ 22 million this 12 months – one other participant out of vary on an Ayton sign-and-trade state of affairs, although the Suns might theoretically simply add in Cam Payne to get it completed, because the Pacers have gobs of cap house to make it work.

I might fairly focus on Brogdon for spare components, since he himself is now extra of a third-guard than anything. How about neglect the Ayton half, and purchase Brogdon for one thing like Jae Crowder, Torrey Craig and Cameron Payne.

The truth is, if the Suns delude themselves into considering they need to purchase 40% of the beginning lineup of one of many league’s worst groups, how about Turner AND Brogdon for Ayton and half the Suns enjoying rotation?

Hopefully, the construction of that final sentence helps you notice this can be a dangerous thought.

The Suns depth chart, in the event that they purchase the 2 Pacers for Ayton and three different Suns (let’s fake it is Crowder, Payne, Shamet) would look one thing like …

  • Paul, Brogdon
  • Booker
  • Bridges
  • Cameron Johnson, Torrey Craig
  • Myles Turner, Dario Saric

The one different mechanisms, then, to signal 5-6 extra gamers is a tax-payer mid-level exception ($ 6 million) and veteran minimums ($ 2 million or much less). That is it.

How bout Collins AND Turner?

Here is one other wrinkle with these rumors: what if the Suns acquired John Collins for these spare components after which swapped Ayton for Turner.

Now you’ve got received the rebound differential made up by Collins, who replaces Crowder. However the Suns must embody extra worth for Collins, in all probability forcing the Suns to incorporate Cameron Johnson. On this iteration it is extra like …

  • Paul, Payne
  • Booker
  • Bridges
  • John CollinsTorrey Craig
  • Myles TurnerDario Saric

After all, the precise included gamers in any of those trades would range. I am simply guessing at who every staff would need.

Nonetheless, the end result is much less depth that must get replaced by lower-salary gamers as a result of the Suns should not have a bunch of mechanisms for including gamers exterior of trades.

Is that higher than the Suns present staff that has Cam Johnson, Crowder and Ayton manning the ‘massive man’ spots? A Collins / Turner pairing is barely higher if it makes the Suns a contender, and you can’t play Turner as a lot as Ayton towards groups just like the Mavericks and Clippers. Collins additionally cannot actually play protection on the perimeter …

Plus, now the Suns are handicapped by way of property to get that third high-level playmaker they want come playoff time. Neither Collins nor Turner create ‘one thing from nothing’. So have the Suns actually solved something?

Possibly this isn’t the very best route for the Suns.

Possibly, for those who HAVE to commerce Ayton due to relationship points, you commerce him for components that the Nets need in a Kevin Durant commerce, or that the Lakers need in a LeBron James commerce …

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